God is Not Your Lab Rat

So I stopped by one of my favorite Athiest sites to have a conversation the other day. There was some playful back and forth like normal.

One open minded scientificly minded blogger decided to come at me with some links and normal scientific talk about there being no proof therefore the Resurrection can’t be real.

When I didn’t respond right away as he is interacting with other bloggers he finished out with this:

“This is part of the problem.  It’s fine believing in something.  Especially if you are truly a good person, but don’t lie about things or believe lies to make your beliefs ‘real.’

There is no evidence.  People having visions, religious experiences does not count.  But if you believe that then you also have to believe the people belonging to different religions who have had experiences with their dieties.”

Where to start,

  1.  The problem he is referring to is with me believing in a diety.  In his mind this mythical figure seems to reek havoc on his world, much like unicorns, leprechauns and the swamp thing.  It is perfectly natural to hate something that doesn’t exist unless deep down you know better.  Unless you have truly searched your heart and pondered the idea of us coming from nothing is beyond miraculous.  It is so miraculous it is easier to believe someone made it, and maybe even someone came back from the dead.
  2. The lies he is referring to is actually well documented facts about the thinking of the 1st century world.  I guess it is hard even for the scientific community to comprehend of a world with no internet, TV, radio, newspapers, etc.  Also this world was preserved through story.  This story is passed down from generation to generation.  Because many can’t read or write the oral tradition is essential for passing on the faith and the traditions of the people.  If someone told the story wrong there was a moral responsibility to correct them. It is hard to imagine during this age of  slanted entertainment type news outlets.  It is simply a world we do not know.  Before you call something a lie look into well documented facts. I bring this up not to be mean to this person but to help Christians to understand bully arguments.  This person doesn’t know the topic but thinks he can call a point of view names.
  3. No evidence- This is the part I love.  Scientific minded athiest often feel that no scientific proof available for Jesus Christ raising from the dead lets them off the hook.  There is no need to believe in this guy.  We have no DNA samples.  We didn’t see him physically.  We were not there.  No one took a picture.  There is no video.  Once again consider the oral traditon.  When we consider the oral traditon the fact that the gospels were written several decades later doesn’t matter. There were hundreds of people in this small region claiming to have seen a risen Christ.  The Gospels also share intimate details like talking about people who had seen him who were still around.  This is true for the events of Christ’s life as well.  Remember reading about Simon of Cyrene’s son Rufus.  That was an invitation to go and ask him.  But let’s get back to proof.  God is not a lab rat.  He is God.  If He were subject to testing He wouldnt be God.  So the first reply is going to be well the argument is circular then.  I am going to suggest that God gives us free will, we have the opportunity to find Him and if we truly seek we will truly find Him.  That is my story anyway.
  4. People having visions and religious experiences do not count.  It is fascinating how people who are used to working with lab rats think they set the rules.  A true test would be to investigate claims and testimonies as a part of the study.
  5. Now dealing with other religions and there experiences.  Yes there are people who have experienced other dieties.  They have made big claims.  For most the reason Christianity is set apart is a personal God.  A God who became man who was a real person who lived.  He died. Everyone wanted to see the body.  No one could find it.  He didn’t write anything Himself.  He was wrote about and foreshadowed through out a span of thousands of years and proved Himself to be true when He came to live as one of us.  The funny thing about proof is very few enemies of the cross these days consider the great lengths people have gone to disprove this but can’t.  Christianity even claims the spiritual casualty of many great athiests.  C.s. Lewis being one of those.  other religions by and large do not have a personal diety.  By contrast Muslims are coming to faith in Jesus everyday.  There idea of God is not personal but regularly they are meeting Jesus in miraculous ways.  Personally I have met Jesus through miraculous circumstances.  When you have had that experince you can’t forget that.  You can’t seem to get that back in a test tube.
  6. Blessings to all who read this.



Photo by News.discovery.com



12 thoughts on “God is Not Your Lab Rat


    Liked by 1 person

  2. Funny. The whole issue is about verifiable evidence and you offer none.
    Who are you trying to convince with this piece? Yourself?

    There were hundreds of people in this small region claiming to have seen a risen Christ.

    Who were these people?

    Where, outside of the bible, is there a single report from any source to support this claim?
    For a writer you demonstrate a serious lack of understanding of the language and the meaning of certain words and terms.

    People having visions and religious experiences do not count. It is fascinating how people who are used to working with lab rats think they set the rules. A true test would be to investigate claims and testimonies as a part of the study.

    And you believe such test have not been conducted?
    Or, are you saying they have been conducted but non-believers are not aware of the evidence to demonstrate the veracity of the claims?
    I will take it as a given then, that you are aware.
    So please, feel free to provide the evidence.
    I would imagine if there are any data of such tests the the Templeton Foundation would be aware, wouldn’t you?

    The funny thing about proof is very few enemies of the cross these days consider the great lengths people have gone to disprove this but can’t.

    Rank apologetic diatribe.
    What ”enemies”?
    And where is anyone asking for proof? Evidence. That is all. Verifiable evidence.
    And evidence has been shown to refute so many biblical claims that your argument can only appeal to poor, indoctrinated individuals.

    The Genome Project is a perfect example.


    1. The point is you and I are the lab rats if anyone and in the name of science you don’t get to set your own guidelines. You beg for proof and evidence yet lack an understanding that our savior never asked His followers to be His provers but His witnesses.
      His experiment has been successful by the way. Jesus has influenced every country on the face of the earth. No one is neutral on their feelings or thoughts about Him. Millions make claims to give Him the credit for changed lives, healed marriages, redeemed lifestyles. That is better than any study where some lab rat tries to nail down the King of The Universe. Start with trying to prove all of us cross culturally and living in different eras are all crazy. For you to make your claims there is some work to do. Think of all of the cultural and language barriers yet Christianity influences everywhere it goes.


      1. Once again, your response clearly indicates indoctrination, without any critical thought whatsoever.

        Followers? Of whom? The narrative construct, Jesus of Nazareth?

        Evidence of followers/believers is not evidence of the Jesus of Nazareth.

        No, you are wrong. The character Jesus of Nazareth has not influenced any country, but the doctrine concerning this mythological piece of nonsense initially spread accompanied by the sword and other threats has most definitely.

        I would be very interested to know what it was that caused you to become ”born again.”


      2. Ark
        You are displaying a closed mind. There lived a man 2000 years ago who changed the world. His existence caused people to draw conclusions. We can discuss what He did or didn’t do, but this is a historical figure. His existence and the perception of his existence has changed the world.

        As for my conversion story. I will share it in an upcoming post.


      3. a rediculous accusation that is so absurd I will not spend time on it. No one disputes his existence. Whether you trust what they say or not the gospels verify his existence as preserved through the oral tradition and the people still living mentioned in them who you could go ask
        Josephus is a trusted source for all things Israel in the first century. No credible thinker asserts Jesus didn’t exist. You would definetely be on the fringe as a historian.


      4. No, the gospels do not verify any existence.
        There is not a single scrap of contemporary evidence for the biblical character and no genuine historian will state otherwise.
        That there may have been an itinerant eschatological 1st century rabbi is eminently possible, the the biblical character, the miracle working man god is a narrative construct, pure and simple.
        Josephus’ TF is a rank forgery ad has been regarded as such since the 18th century.
        You should know this.
        Some scholars consider there may be a core of veracity, but they are a minority, and only biblical literalist idiots consider the entire TF is genuine.
        Oh, and there are numerous credible thinkers who consider the character as reflected in the bible did not exist, not least Professor Carrier.


      5. Once again u speak in absolutes as if scholars agree on these things. Josephus is used outside of the church and Jewsish culture. His writings are regarded as authoritative in the realm of Roman history.
        Like I said you grasping at straws again and wasting time. It is historically reliable that Jesus of Nazareth lived 2000 years ago, work on something else. Your slant is embarrassing. I am not putting anymore time to something that has been verified over and over again.


      6. I did not say Josephus’ writings were not considered authoritative. I stated that the TF is regarded as an interpolation.
        Fraud in other words. Quite likely by Eusebius as the TF is not mentioned by any other Christian writer before him.

        There is no evidence for an historical Jesus of Nazareth as reflected in the bible. None.


  3. We weren’t hanging around watching ‘evolution’ either and nobody was filming it. And then there’s the little notion that we all KNOW that God exists, according to Romans 1. About experiences – all religions have them and some false religions have thoaemthat are identical to some in ‘Christian’ circles. May the point here is that we should’t be advertising our ‘experiences’ as proof but rather just proclaim the gospel. Great post!

    Liked by 1 person

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